Space Digest Sun, 25 Jul 93 Volume 16 : Issue 917 Today's Topics: cheap space computers DC-X DC-X Prophets and associated problems John Glen as the first American in space Mars Direct Info Room in the VAB? (was Re: DC-X Prophets and associated problems) Space Lottery! Any ideas? Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 21:55:27 BST From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: cheap space computers > >I think you're wrong. I think roughly NONE will. The space environment, > >especially ine LEO (where you clip the Van Allan belts occasionally, let alone in > >Jupiter orbit or Mercury orbit, is incredibly hostile to electronics... > > It's not that bad, actually. Note that quite a few off-the-shelf > electronic systems, including commercial laptop computers, have been > used quite successfully inside the shuttle cabin. The cabin has some > shielding, but it's not that much. > And I'll add to that Henry. The AMSAT people use off the shelf, not mil parts and have had little problem with them, even in cases where they have been exposed to the Van Allen belts. On one satellite they discovered that the space rated battery was available from hospital suppliers. I think it was used for one of those "thumpers". The space rated version was something like $20K. They bought a case of them for about $70 I think. And had no problems whatever. They also discovered that bridal veil had just the right thermal characteristics to replace some rather more expensive insulation materials. The space environment is NOT that nasty to electronics. Lifetimes are degraded and you have to be robust enough to handle SEU's now and then. And I would not particularly recommend spending a lot of time orbiting Jupiter, but other than that... It once again comes down to the philosophy that you have one shot, so you have to put everything on that shot, and it better not fail so you have to used 0-defect procedures. I think the russians have a far better idea. You send two cheaper and less reliable craft and bet that at least one will work. -- ======================================================================= Give generously to the Dale M. Amon, Libertarian Anarchist Betty Ford Home for amon@cs.qub.ac.uk the Politically Correct Greybook: amon%cs.qub.ac.uk@andrew.cmu.edu ======================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 18:23:43 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: DC-X Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1993Jul22.121127.7028@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: >>>1)Could DC-1 replace the space shuttle for all manned surface to orbit >>>needs at a much lower cost,if so how much lower >> >>Maybe, if we restructured manned missions, had a station, and didn't >>attempt on orbit repair missions. > >Why can't DC-1 do on-orbit repairs? On the contrary, DC-1 may actually >make on-orbit repair cost-effective. It certainly isn't now, which is >(partly) why designing satellites for it has gone out of fashion. My understanding of the DC concept is that it doesn't have a large enough bay to support a Canadarm or work cradles or tools and spare parts or suiting rooms or airlocks or life support for more than a few orbits. It doesn't, to my knowledge, have provision for extensive orbital maneuvering and rendezvous with a balky satellite. I haven't even heard of a search radar capability. As an SSTO, it probably doesn't have the margin to carry all those things. Very simple grab, plug, and scoot jobs by an astronaut who rides suited in the bay may be possible, but that's quite a far cry from the kind of orbital repair missions most people envision. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 22:11:54 BST From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: DC-X Prophets and associated problems > first big hurdle. (You show me an astronaut who is wiling to fly inside > a closed can with no control other than the ground, and I'll be significantly > amazed. The shuttle theoretically could be operated this wa from launch to > landing, but is NOT in deferece to those willing to risk flying into space, > AND to improve the "saftey margin" of the vehicle. > The answer to that is quite simple. If he don't like it, he ain't gettin' hired on my spaceline. After cooling his heels on the ground in the unemployment queue for awhile, I'm sure he'll see the light. The DC/X is being "flown" by Pete Conrad. He clicks a mouse on a Macitosh screen to change pre-programmed flight modes. One click sends it into the abort sequence. He states that like it or not, THAT is the way of the future. The stick and rudder has seen it's day. Sad (I fly now and then myself, more then than now) but true. So saith Pete.-- ======================================================================= Give generously to the Dale M. Amon, Libertarian Anarchist Betty Ford Home for amon@cs.qub.ac.uk the Politically Correct Greybook: amon%cs.qub.ac.uk@andrew.cmu.edu ======================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jul 1993 17:10:24 GMT From: Claudio Egalon Subject: John Glen as the first American in space Newsgroups: sci.space Why is that many Americans think that John Glenn was indeed the first American to fly in space?? That is a myth that still remain among many Americans. I have been giving some thought about that and, up to now, I have came in with three possible explanations; 1) Glenn was the most charismatic among the Mercury astronauts; 2) Apparently, he had a good relationship with John Kennedy who, as far as I understand, was and still IS a very popular president so it looks like there was some kind of sinergy between the two men and 3) It might be because John Glenn's flight was an orbital one whereas Shepard and Grissom's flight were a suborbital one that lasted only 15 minutes. I am inclined to believe that the explanation number 1 is the most important. Does anybody have any comments? BTW, oddly enough, the poster "Space Explorers" published by the Air and Space magazine, do not mention the suborbital flights of Sheppard and Grissom below their headshots. Claudio Oliveira Egalon C.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jul 93 19:26:52 GMT From: Ralph Buttigieg Subject: Mars Direct Info Newsgroups: sci.space Original to: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu 20 Jul 01 00:54, gwh@soda.berkeley.edu wrote to All: gbe> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert), via Kralizec 3:713/602 gbe> That having been said, there are at least two of us here on sci.space gbe> (myself and Frank Crary) who've been following Mars Direct pretty gbe> closely for several years and who have seen the papers on it. gbe> It was (suprise) again a featured item at Case for Mars V earlier this gbe> year, and hasn't changed much except that Bob's talking more certainly gbe> about using artificial-G on the way out by tethering to the expended gbe> upper stage, or at least that's the impression I got. gbe> If you'd like to ask us questions about it, or have one of us do a gbe> summary article or something on the concept (and one should be posted gbe> here sometime, also one on the Stanford/Energia** proposal) we can work gbe> on that. gbe> -george william herbert G'day george, I would certainly appreciate a summary article on Mars Direct and/or Stanford proposal. And if there any graphics on a site I should be able to get someone to grap them too. I think many reader would look forward to such stuff. ta Ralph --- GoldED 2.41+ * Origin: VULCAN'S WORLD: Astro/Space BBS (02) 635-1204 3:713/635 (3:713/635) ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jul 1993 15:11 CDT From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: Room in the VAB? (was Re: DC-X Prophets and associated problems) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jul23.183137.1@fnala.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnala.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes... >In article <23JUL199317391417@judy.uh.edu>, wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: >> There is still plenty of >> room in the VAB for making a new stacker for the Shuttle and other >> improvements that would support an increased flight rate. > >Yes, but then they'd have to move the piles of Mars mission studies >out of there, and where would NASA put *them*? > >Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey Bill next time you come to Huntspatch we will have to give you the stealth tour of a certain nearby facility and show you just how much room there is to do fun things up here. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jul 1993 17:53:51 GMT From: Greg Moore Subject: Space Lottery! Any ideas? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <24.11449.1898.0NB29B47@pcohio.com> charles.radley@pcohio.com (Charles Radley) writes: > > > A couple of years ago a group in Texas tried to run a lottery > where the winner would fly to Mir. > > Unfortunately the Texas state attorney declared the operation > illegal, and immoral. It violated Texas state lottery laws. > The operation was closed down in a blaze of publicity and > money received was refunded. > Actually, as I recall, it was declared illegal. This gave it a LOT of bad publicity. However, it was later determined that the Assistant State Attorney had erred, and there was in fact no illegal activities going on. By then though they had lost enough money to not make it worthwhile. I believe there was some question about the finances of the group and their ability to pay a substitution price. However, it did appear that they had a contract with either Glavkosmos or Energia (the company). >... Internet address:- DJ320@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU Ad Astra per Guile ! >--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 917 ------------------------------